What's gonna change?, When he actually gets here

A question provoked by the other topics: I wonder what is gonna be changing when he gets here. Will he just preach his butt off? Will he end all hunger/warr/terror etc? Will he take a walk from America to Europe over the Ocean? What's Jezus' agenda???

Good question and one that I hope we and others discuss here.

I think that a prophet does several things.

One would be to identify followers and then to lead them somewhere.

Then a new or different society would be created to produce a differing outcome for all its inhabitants on many levels.

I can't see how everyone would be into this theme and thus we would see the world split into differing camps, so to speak.

What if the so-called 'prince of darkness' arrived about the same time? What would we see? a splintering of all peoples on the earth? Maybe.

Depends on what you call darkness. The definition of evil is very vague, what would this prince of darkness want here? Nice timing if he gets here when Jezus does, if he would be smart he'd get his ass down here and get some followers before Christ has the chance to.

Identify followers and lead them 'somewhere'? I hope you don't mean that literally I'm not up for a walk Where would he lead them? I don't see what he needs to teach his followers...

The problem with a new society is the same as with politics. Peoples opinions differ. If everybody would be hard-working, generous and loyal communism would actually work! The problem is: very few people are. Splitting in two camps would cause a kind of world-civil-war, so would it actually be a good idea for Jezus to come here before mankind is extinct?

Further splintering is not a big difference from the current situation. See it as a big puzzle of which you can paint the pieces. Some pieces may convert to different ideas, some may not, still they are different pieces. If the pieces fit together AND have the same color you have a strong camp. If they fit and have different colors you have civil war, if they have same colors and don't fit you have a tight community only during hard times, when all is fixed upon the 'enemy', but when they have the time to look around they see it won't fit and new coloring wil follow. People have already splintered, but it is not that clear to see.
There always will be a part that listens to whatever you tell them, would they even be useful to Jezus?

Well the prince of darkness is already here if you believe major religous texts or myths.

Evil is difficult to define in some respects but I see it as being the will to exist physically and for self for eternity. I think one can talk about morality but that is a difficult area to delve into because there are two sides to any issue.

When I say lead followers somewhere I do mean both physically and spiritually but not sure if and when one or the other would take precedence.

I agree with your views on communism but it is not what has to be done to make it work but whether humanity can be conditioned to make it work. Also one must truly consider whether that is the best existance for all people, is it achieving the true purpose of existance?

I agree that it is difficult to see the intent in men's hearts. But if one could do that then a good movement of people could be assembled. I trust that a messiah is able to do this but I'm sure that many people would not agree.

so being selfish and lustful is the definition of evil? Defined this way there IS a bit of evil in everyone
Though you told me that texts say the PoD is already here, you did not answer any of my other questions what is his agenda for example? And more importantly, if God created everything, where did he come from?

most of humanity can be conditioned easily, the problem being that they can be conditioned back as well. It's a bit like stealing someones girlfriend if she can be stolen towards you, she can be stolen from you as well. Same I guess with conditioning. There will always be people who think for themselves, for good or for worse. Will THEY be the ones to join darkness, for darkness at least is not a mass of foolish followers?

Morality is a hard one, a simple definition would be valueing others above yourself, but looking at evolution there would be 2 possibilities...
1. It could evolve out, good people die for others and don't reproduce
2. It could evole in, good people with some brothers and sisters save those brothers and siters, thus passing on
bit off-topic perhaps... Morality is a hard thing, people with true moral are few...
Well I'm gonna go out to a friend now, c you

Exactly Imphead! None of us is pure on this earth.

They say (because I haven't asked) that PoD's agenda is to take over the whole of creation by building a bigger army than that controlled by the creator. Does that make sense? Not sure yet myself.

Where did PoD come from? very good question and not easy to answer but I think that PoD arose with the initial dark mass that was the universe. Dark, cold and lifeless. Like clay that can be made into something that has form, or metal that can be made into a machine. I think of PoD as the god of the 'substance of the universe' and the creator as the spark of energy or the program that turns that substance into something that lives! Funny how that remined me of Frankenstein there...

Agreed, that people are easily conditioned. But fooled twice in a row? not sure about that. But yeah, most of us are sheep and the controllers of this world know this: witness the media and all the diversions to keep us unawares of what is going on.

Darkness seems inferior to me because it does not appear to me to be the 'higher' form of existance. It seems a lesser path to take based upon the creation myth anyways I think.

Good points on morality, never thought of those before. Yah, I can see it working that way in those examples and probably in countless more too. Yes, I also believe that morality comes with a high price, the renouncing of the physical ultimately I think.

A bigger army than that controlled by the creator? Wouldn't that be an impossible task? And since he is the creator, wouldn't he simply 'create' an army? Or simply snap his fingers, if he has any, and destroy the PoD's army? Or would he just put a sad look on his face and see everything destroyed under the cover of 'Free Will'? This sounds very strange...

So substance itself is evil? And all that is spiritual and thus invisible is God's department? So the lord of all non-substantual stuff created the earth (which is 100% substance)??? Now you're freaking me out... Again I don't see why that is so evil?
I refer to Tolkiens creation-story (in my own strange words Nessera, it's been a while since I read the Silmarillion's first chapter, please correct me on this one ). Eru, the One, created some kids for himself, to whom he gave different gifts, one of them he made more intelligent. Anyways, in a way that is not important to the topic the Earth was created, and some of the kids went down to make it the place to be, but mr. Smarty-pants grew more and more evil, jealous and things like that, until he became the lord of all evil, eventually with Sauron as his pawn. Tolkien somehow suggests that being aware of more things makes you evil. As does the Christian story, eating from the forbidden fruit made them realise things they had never done before, and a while later we have our first murder. Why is everything I like so evil?

Morality equals renouncing the physical? Again you should read Dan Browns 'The Da Vinci Code', amazing what one little book can do to your view

Well free will may want the creator to allow an alternative system to exist and to strive to compete. But you suggest that the creator would not want the competitor to win. That makes sense and I think you are correct here. It makes no sense for the PoD to win, not even for the PoD either. If the PoD won, then all would be chaos and there would be either no PoD or nothing for the PoD to rule over. Hope that makes sense.

But the creator could desire a titanic battle such that there is a 'big bang' and a renewal which would be greater than that before. Some physicists suggest that there have been multiple 'big bangs' in the universe and you could visualize that this big conflagration is the final titanic battle between good and evil?

I use the word evil as a descriptor. Frankly, it is not a good term to use. It is far better to use the terms 'service to self' and 'service to others' which I have come across as used in alternative belief systems.

The physical is not bad, if you make the most of it and know that it is not where you started nor where you need to stay for eternity. A positive view is to consider the spiritual inhabitation of the physical as a special classroom to learn in. It could be the arm of the creator experiencing the created physical realm?

But, that which traps you, or limits you, or impedes you could be called evil. To desire to exist in the physical forever is a rejection of the spiritual and a rejection of your true 'self.'

So is the PoD just dumb or does it make no sense to believe he exists?

lol, I just think that you are here right now, should seize the day and not waste time preparing for what might not be. I like your vision on evil here, tho

I don't know what will fully change. Rev 19 indicates Jesus's return after the rise of the Beast and False Prophet with the False Prophet issuing the Mark of the Beast. Those who refuse the Mark are put to death. At what appears to be the same time the Two Witnesses come forth and begin their days of prophecy against this world. And of course there are all sorts of discussions just about this section of Revelation.

Then God begins sending his judgments against this world. I don't know for sure if Aides isn't a judgment from God, and I don't mean just directed at homosexuals as some people have thought. Even as the judgments come upon the earth nations rise against nations with God eventually putting it into the minds of men to burn Mystery Babylon in one hour. Whether just the great city located in Mystery Babylon is burned in one hour or the nation that is Mystery Babylon is burned in one hour is a thing I don't know, and whether this burning is a nuclear attack I don't know.

Jesus then returns in Rev 19 to set up the Kingdom for the 1000 years of peace. I don't know if we will be in our resurrected bodies for the 1000 years because it is fairly difficult to live 1000 years in these present bodies. The 1000 years of peace is strange because near the end according to this passage satan is once again releashed to deceive the world for a short time before it is all put to an end by Jesus.

There are a lot of different interpretations to the 1000 years of peace as there is with many different aspects of Revelation, but in the Gospels Jesus also outlines the Tribulation saying it will be so bad that if it were not for God's intercession of cutting the days of the Tribulation short that no flesh would be spared.

So what it is going to be like when Jesus returns, who knows for sure. When sin and death are gone perhaps we will live in a oneness with God and Jesus of joy that most people cannot even fathom or perceive at this time?

I agree that it is likely that many who refuse the mark will be put to death or die due to starvation if the mark is that required to buy...

Judgements must be spiritual I think. What affects the body can affect the spirits but the judgment affects the life of the spirit.

Mystery Babylon could mean the 'religion of darkness' etc., and the burning would be the destruction of all those that believe in it, provided they have not yet escaped with their masters to somewhere else?

A thousand years and how will it be under Christ? I do not know either but I have to assume that it will be about the greater good and an experience where one would truely learn to give and appreciate that feeling.

Greetings all,

Guys when Christ returns, he will put down all Authority and rule.

Then he will bring all men to the knowledge of the Truth, when those days come Jerusalem will become known as the Light of the World and the Joy of the Earth!

Satan has no power that is not already given to him by God.

Glory be to God in the Highest.

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That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth". (Phil.2:10)

This post has been edited by Razor on July 10, 2005 03:57 am

I believe that he will round up his followers and take them under his wing and let the others go under the wing of their dark lords.

That is the way of the universe and of creation... freedom of choice.

Choose carefully everyone.

I have already chosen.

Have you considered this,

The price of the Shed Blood of Jesus, the only begotton Son of the living God could only be settled with no less than the Salvation of all men!

Peace

If Christ can only be paid back by the blood of all men then he has a problem coming because not all men are going to respond to the call I think.